Need advice about which tool to choose?Ask the StackShare community!
Clojure vs Spring Boot: What are the differences?
Clojure: A dynamic programming language that targets the Java Virtual Machine. Clojure is designed to be a general-purpose language, combining the approachability and interactive development of a scripting language with an efficient and robust infrastructure for multithreaded programming. Clojure is a compiled language - it compiles directly to JVM bytecode, yet remains completely dynamic. Clojure is a dialect of Lisp, and shares with Lisp the code-as-data philosophy and a powerful macro system; Spring Boot: Create Spring-powered, production-grade applications and services with absolute minimum fuss. Spring Boot makes it easy to create stand-alone, production-grade Spring based Applications that you can "just run". We take an opinionated view of the Spring platform and third-party libraries so you can get started with minimum fuss. Most Spring Boot applications need very little Spring configuration.
Clojure can be classified as a tool in the "Languages" category, while Spring Boot is grouped under "Frameworks (Full Stack)".
"It is a lisp", "Concise syntax" and "Persistent data structures" are the key factors why developers consider Clojure; whereas "Powerful and handy", "Easy setup" and "Java" are the primary reasons why Spring Boot is favored.
Clojure and Spring Boot are both open source tools. It seems that Spring Boot with 39.8K GitHub stars and 25.8K forks on GitHub has more adoption than Clojure with 7.85K GitHub stars and 1.25K GitHub forks.
MIT, Intuit, and OpenGov are some of the popular companies that use Spring Boot, whereas Clojure is used by CircleCI, Groupon, and Zalando. Spring Boot has a broader approval, being mentioned in 333 company stacks & 615 developers stacks; compared to Clojure, which is listed in 95 company stacks and 80 developer stacks.
I’ve been using Django for the last year on and off to do my backend API. I’m getting a bit frustrated with the Django REST framework with the setup of the serializers and Django for the lack of web sockets. I’m considering either Spring or .NET Core. I’m familiar with Kotlin and C# but I’ve not built any substantial projects with them. I like OOP, building a desktop app, web API, and also the potential to get a job in the future or building a tool at work to manage my documents, dashboard and processes point cloud data.
I’m familiar with c/cpp, TypeScript.
I would love your insights on where I should go.
Theres a logt going on in the dotnet world. I currently do all my Rest APIs with asp.net core.
The Setup is very easy as the .net web sdk provides with a lot features you don't want to keep yourself concerned with. You can integrate Swagger with little effort.
Spring Boot is the lightweight of the Spring framework. I used the Spring framework before, and I fall in love with the Spring Boot. I also use .NET core, but still, I like Spring boot the best. If you have time then you should experience both. You are more than halfway in gaining experience. My suggestion is always to try to learn many things as you can.
I see what you're going through and I extend my hands to you. I felt the same frustration after almost 1.5 years of working with Django and Node.js in the parallel. And since the last one year, I've transitioned into Spring Boot. I think its fair to say, that its quite different when you're going from Django background as a framework, but otherwise. I think it's one of the robust ones out there. Scalability is seamless and you get most of the things out of the box or easily supported by dev dependencies. You should definitely check it out! :)
I've heard PHP is very popular in the freelance world. I don't know PHP. However, I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to learn since it has many similarities with Java (OOP). It seems to me that Laravel has similarities with Spring Boot (it's MVC and OOP). Also, people say Laravel works well with Vue.js, which is my favorite JS framework.
The projects I would like to work on are custom web applications/websites for small businesses. I have developed custom ERPs before and found that Java was a good fit, except for it taking a long time to develop. I cannot make a choice, and I am constantly switching between trying PHP and Node.js/Express. Any real-world advice would be welcome! I would love to find a stack that I enjoy while doing meaningful freelance coding.
Hi Eva, As you have solid experience with Spring already, you should jump into freelancing with that. It would be quite stressful to start freelancing with a tech stack you don't know well. Then in the background you can keep learning/practicing an alternative and switch over when you are confident enough (eg. 0.5-1 year later). I think you should learn Laravel as you already like it and find it easier. Express has better performance but that is not required for most of the small freelancer projects.
Note: These are all my opinions and what I've seen in the current market when recently searching for jobs.
I think Patrik and Alex are right: if you're comfortable with Spring Boot already, you'll be more productive right from the start.
If you wish to learn something else besides, both Laravel and Express are good choices. They aren't in the same category of frameworks: Laravel is an all-in-one solution, while Express is more like "build your own stack from different parts". Which implies that you can use whatever you want as a database engine: MySQL or PostgreSQL are perfectly valid choices (in my school, we teach Express with MySQL, because SQL is still a big thing here in France, and a sought-after skill). You can use Sequelize or TypeORM which support all major SQL DBMS.
Bottom line: using a stack tech, that you enjoy and are comfortable with, matters. Spring Boot + Vue.js seem perfectly fine to me. But do forget jQuery if you're using Vue.js, React or Angular, because it will definitely bring more harm than good!
Hi as someone who employs and select developers i agree with a lot almost sayed but think of what are your strengths and where you are or better where your customers are. If you search for big enterprise projects spring boot is ok sql is must and html css as well. if you want to go more to internet related companies (like airbnb, what sup, facebook ) or similar (and not asia) then react is a must node js as well. The libraries tools etc which are used you need to adopt fast. If asia then VUE is a must. but if you like small projects with individuals or like wordpress or similar then you can learn php but i think in 2020 it is wasted time. Same for python in that area. and i also see that we often have problem that developer at least must understand docker docker compose better as it works with kubernetes ,.. just my 5 cents
I would definitely recommend you to go with Spring Boot + AngularJS + jQuery. Reasons: 1- You have an experience of 4 years with the above-mentioned stack. 2- As you mentioned that you wish to work as a freelancer, your stack is the perfect one for finding good bids with a little less effort than that of PHP + Laravel + Vue.js.
in order to stay employable, I'd work with something you can deliver with. if I'd be your client and you'd have to get comfortable with a new stack, I would 100% not pay you for this startup time. learn new stuff in your free-time. or set aside time for learning.
regarding expressjs and mongodb: yes, it is a goto solution for a lot of tutorials, because its as simple as it gets. especially wben using something like monk. BUT if you want to use mysql, posgres or similar, check out TypeORM, Prism or another ORM-like solution. you can use any db with express, and there's plenty of abstraction layers, which make your life easier. but i noticed that expressjs does a lot less "holding hands" compared to .net core (c#), or laravel (php). can be a pro or a con.
As a developer myself, I would recommend you not to restrict yourself to JAVA, PHP or any other language. New Tools/languages keep coming every day. If you do plan to move to freelancing. PHP has a lot of options in the freelance space and a lot of competition too.
Learning PHP is as simple as learning any other language. It depends merely on your interest.
I agree with you JAVA is a lot more time consuming. But it also has its enterprise level scope.
At the same time learning a new language should not be a barrier for you to stop exploring what's out there and keeping your skills up to date. Learning new technologies should be your primary focus and getting project out of your stack helps you build a good reputation.
There are many options for you to pursue. Having an open mindset will help you move forward. If you look to learn now, you are setting yourself up for a brighter future.
I like fullstack freelancers who stacks are clean as one of below
PHP (laravel ) + Jquery + Bootstrap
Python(Django) + Angular JS or VueJS
NODEJS + REACTJS
Please, try to work with your comfortable stack, here is some recommendation
I am currently planning to build a project from scratch. I will be using Angular as front-end framework, but for the back-end I am not sure which framework to use between Spring Boot and NestJS. I have worked with Spring Boot before, but my new project contains a lot of I/O operations, in fact it will show a daily report. I thought about the new Spring Web Reactive Framework but given the idea that Node.js is the most popular on handling non blocking I/O I am planning to start learning NestJS since it is based on Angular philosophy and TypeScript which I am familiar with. Looking forward to hear from you dear Community.
NestJS is an excellent framework (they both are). I would say the fact that you're working with Angular makes NestJS a great match, unless you're splitting front and back end between developers. But even in that case I would still go with NestJS for a new project.
Regarding the single threading point, take a look at PM2 which helps to run Node in multiple processes (we use it with NestJS) https://pm2.keymetrics.io/docs/usage/cluster-mode/
Also regarding web server performance in general this is an interesting post showing how Node with outperform Java in a web situation (be careful though, best to check a few posts to make sure these aren't totally biased benchmarks!): https://www.tandemseven.com/blog/performance-java-vs-node/
Node.js has only 1 real thread per process; Java JIT will mostly run faster than JS one; So if it happens to be not only I/O... Why do you need most popular, not simply popular? Does Node.js have tech advantages?
I need your help in choosing either Spring Boot or ASP.NET Core. Both frameworks seem to have mature ecosystems. I would like to hear your thoughts on the following points:
- Difficulty level of both frameworks
- Level of community support
- Career prospects i.e do Spring based jobs pay more or vice versa
- which one will be helpful if I decide to transition towards a more specialized field like data engineering.
I am asking this because it is something that I am also exploring in parallel. I know that Python and #SQL play a huge role in big data.
Spring boot helps you creating microservices in hours, not days and there is a very active community around it with amazing integrations. Check one of the tutorials maybe. At least here in Germany, the job market will be better for Spring Boot as well, there are a lot more companies using Java then C#.
I'll preface this by saying I haven't ever done work on the Microsoft stack, so take this with a grain of salt.
Community support: Java tends to have a more active community (and much more diverse universe of new open source projects) than .Net (related to below).
Difficulty level: I'd say the Java/Spring stack is more difficult because Java developers tend to use more community projects and have to know which ones to choose in which circumstances (e.g. what logging framework to use? What database connection pooling library to use? What testing framework to use). That being said, most decisions you have to make have choices that are vastly more popular than others. My impression is that .NET guys use stuff from the standard library almost exclusively. If it's not provided there, it's a problem they never thought to solve or maybe write their own (usually the former).
Career prospects: I'll get hate for this probably, but Java/Spring has more jobs than .Net. .NET Core even more so because it's new. Most .NET jobs out there are going to be not Core, and not on anything other than Windows. LinkedIn search for jobs in United States shows 97,103 for Java and 36,448 for C#. That's not to say some individual city might not have more .NET than Java, but by and large Java is bigger. Also, .NET is not dying at the same pace as say Ruby on Rails (sorry Rails fans). I'd say it's ticking very slowly lower, maybe even holding steady. I wouldn't say you're screwed career-wise if you choose .NET. C# is also pretty similar to Java from what I've seen, and I know professionals that have transitioned to Java (though interestingly, I don't know any that did the reverse). Several companies have basically no .NET footprint, for example, Amazon, Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter all have Java, but basically no C#.
Specialized fields: Neither Spring or .Net are going to be a thing in a field like data science. That's exclusively Python (some R) for the most part. The only exception being that there is some Java in Hadoop, and Scala in Spark (which runs on the JVM). But I think those are generally more for data products being created, and not data science work. I'm also under the impression this is increasingly less the case than historically. Some other specialties might make Java useful, for example Android development.
In short, Java is the COBOL of the modern enterprise (which is both a good and bad thing). I recommend it to anyone over .NET, but not for technical reasons. It's for reasons related to the questions you asked. There are actually reasons I think CLR and C# are actually better from a technical perspective than Java (unsurprisingly, since they had the benefit of hindsight). But that's not what you were asking about...
ASP.NET Core is pretty new while spring boot is very old but with a different name. Spring boot is just a pack of spring packages which make your life easier. I also believe that java community is way stronger than c# community... You can do your job in both frameworks and it's up to you what you choose after-all you're going to work on the project/lead it ... but whatever you choose.. after a few days of investment stick with your decision because in both frameworks you'll encounter challenges :)
I’ll echo what others have said here with a few twists.
I have experience with both platforms including Micronaut, a relatively new kid on the block. It all depends on your near term goal. If it is to make money, sure Java jobs pay more generally because there is more hassles when dealing with the entire ecosystem. Like someone said earlier, you have to make a decision at almost every stage of the development cycle from the IDE, dependency resolution framework, logging, serialization, microservice framework etc. There is just too much choice which some may argue is an advantage while others may argue is a distraction and productivity killer. At the end of the day you can build solid systems with both frameworks.
Coming to ASP Core, yes I also agree that options are more streamlined. You’ll be using Visual Studio or Visual Studio code. For dependency management, you’ll be using Nuget. But I disagree with one of the comments above about the lack of choice. In some aspects .NET actually has more choice believe it or not for example choice of ORM. There is entity framework, nhibernate, dapper etc. For J2ee, hibernate reigns supreme although you have JPA. For dependency injection you have many IoC containers like unity, castle Windsor in .NET while you have Guice and maybe a Spring based implementation.
Also C# is technically a better language that Java. That’s not questionable as has also been stated above. Many things are done right obviously by avoiding some of the mistakes made in the underlying architecture surrounding the Java programming language. That’s why Microsoft created c# to begin with. The language is a lot cleaner and allows you to focus on learning core principles and nail down fundamental OO with emphasis on good design. I find too many distractions in the Java ecosystem which takes me away from understanding the core problem I am trying to solve.
So as you can this is not an easy decision and as someone has stated there’s work to do regardless of what technology choice you make.
If your sole purpose is to make a higher base salary, sure pick Spring Boot. If you want to quickly deliver something and iterate, pick ASP Core. I personally use c# for all private projects and proving concepts even though my employer is a Java shop. It allows me to stay focused on solving the problem and not constantly wrestle with issues such as Gradle dependency resolution glitches in IntelliJ.
Given that you can transfer skills from .NET to J2ee I recommend guys to pick up ASP get a couple of services to get a feel web development as you can still get jobs in Java even with that experience. Companies don’t care these days. In fact a lot of companies are going to Go so there’s that too.
Depends on your immediate term goal.
I've just finished my Masters degree and I am looking at routes into developing my Java knowledge.
The University I studied at requested that all practical Java assignments were done in Java Swing and as such I have a strong understanding in that area of development. Looking at job prospects, many employers are now looking for Java Spring or Android developers.
The plan is to move away from Java SE and skill up in Android development. I was planning on learning Spring Boot to gain exposure in web application development, however looking at StackShare, Django seems to be the more attractive choice for developers.
Does anyone have any advice on which routes/stacks would be the most advisable to adopt. If Spring is not receiving as much exposure or support as Django, is it worth adding to my stack?
Spring is generally more an enterprise solution, while I see Django being more startup oriented. Django is lightweight and fast (development time, not runtime!). Spring seems to have more focus on microservice architecture than django, if that matters to you at all. Starting your project in Django, it automatically creates a backend 'admin panel' for you to use and customize. You will not find this in the more serious Spring Boot.
Though Java is a strong language and basically the first language to be used in Mobile Development (Android), the framework Spring Boot is not as modern as the Django framework which is based on one of the most popular languages today - Python. Moreover the Python language is far more simpler in syntax and just as powerful as Java. However, Java has scaled up it's performance and the Spring Boot framework can support dynamic web development as well as android development. Whichever way you choose to go, there will be no regrets - trust me.
Hi, I am looking to select tech stack for front end and back end development. Considering Spring Boot vs Node.js for developing microservices. Front end tech stack is selected as React framework. Both of them are equally good for me, long term perspective most of services will be more based on I/O vs heavy computing. Leaning toward node.js, but will require team to learn this tech stack, so little hesitant.
The problem I have is: build a scalable backend API decoupled as much as possible from the frontend. And more in general, to build a Web application using some kind of frontend. I would like to compare mainly Liferay with Spring Boot
The most important factors for me are: scalable backend, API documentation, TDD, integration with frontend application for modern reactive interaction
It's a general development question, be more specific, because /dev/std... is a generic approach, not a targeted development. You want to develop PHP or Java? Both are good in their terms, but it's your decision. For PHP Laravel is a robust and exhaustive console enabled framework, featuring rich integrations with virtualization & REST. On the other hand, Spring will bring you learning curve if you are switching from PHP and so on. Try to match your needs with project requirements, it will be easier.
Laravel is lighter weight. Spring Boot quickly becomes a handful, as you'll be downloading hundreds of megabytes in dependencies for a few functions and a dynamic dependency there. There are multiple problems that are solved by "download and put it on your classpath by whatever means. Spring framework will automatically detect it and resolve the issue". It's magical when things work, but my teams have constantly found the limits of the framework's utility and starting points of their burden.
While my expertise with Laravel is more limited, I haven't seen this kind of mess in that community and God bless 'em for it.
Laravel all the way. i like the documentation, simplicity, and scalability
We’re a new startup so we need to be able to deliver quick changes as we find our product market fit. We’ve also got to ensure that we’re moving money safely, and keeping perfect records. The technologies we’ve chosen mix mature but well maintained frameworks like Django, with modern web-first and api-first front ends like GraphQL, NextJS, and Chakra. We use a little Golang sparingly in our backend to ensure that when we interact with financial services, we do so with statically compiled, strongly typed, and strictly limited and reviewed code.
You can read all about it in our linked blog post.
Starting a new company in 2020, with a whole new stack, is a really interesting opportunity for me to look back over the last 20 years of my career with web software and make the right decision for my company.
And, I went with the most radical decision– which is to ignore "sexy" / "hype" technologies almost entirely, and go back to a stack that I first used over 15 years ago.
For my purposes, we are building a video streaming platform, where I wanted rapid customer-facing feature development, high testability, simple scaling, and ease of hiring great, experienced talent. To be clear, our web platform is NOT responsible for handling the actual bits and bytes of the video itself, that's an entirely different stack. It simply needs to manage the business rules and the customers experience of the video content.
I reviewed a lot of different technologies, but none of them seemed to fit the bill as well as Rails did! The hype train had long left the station with Rails, and the community is a little more sparse than it was previously. And, to be honest, Ruby was the language that was easiest for developers, but I find that most languages out there have adopted many of it's innovations for ease of use – or at least corrected their own.
Even with all of that, Rails still seems like the best framework for developing web applications that are no more complex than they need to be. And that's key to me, because it's very easy to go use React and Redux and GraphQL and a whole host of AWS Lamba's to power my blog... but you simply don't actually NEED that.
There are two choices I made in our stack that were new for me personally, and very different than what I would have chosen even 5 years ago.
1) Postgres - I decided to switch from MySql to Postgres for this project. I wanted to use UUID's instead of numeric primary keys, and knew I'd have a couple places where better JSON/object support would be key. Mysql remains far more popular, but almost every developer I respect has switched and preferred Postgres with a strong passion. It's not "sexy" but it's considered "better".
Pros of Clojure
- It is a lisp118
- Persistent data structures101
- Concise syntax100
- jvm-based language90
- Interactive repl82
- Code is data76
- Lazy data structures61
- Open source61
- Immutable by default22
- Excellent collections19
- Fast-growing community18
- Multiple host languages14
- Practical Lisp14
- Simple (not easy!)14
- Because it's really fun to use9
- Web friendly8
- Rapid development8
- It creates Reusable code8
- Java interop6
- Programmable programming language5
- Regained interest in programming4
- Share a lot of code with clojurescript/use on frontend2
Pros of Spring Boot
- Powerful and handy142
- Easy setup133
- Lots of "off the shelf" functionalities37
- Cloud Solid32
- Caches well26
- Many receipes around for obscure features24
- Integrations with most other Java frameworks23
- Spring ecosystem is great22
- Fast Performance With Microservices21
- Easy setup, Community Support, Solid for ERP apps17
- One-stop shop15
- Easy to parallelize14
- Powerful 3rd party libraries and frameworks13
- Easy setup, good for build erp systems, well documented13
- Easy setup, Git Integration12
- It's so easier to start a project on spring5
Sign up to add or upvote prosMake informed product decisions
Cons of Clojure
- Cryptic stacktraces9
- Need to wrap basically every java lib4
- Toxic community4
- Good code heavily relies on local conventions3
- Slow application startup2
- Tonns of abandonware2
- Usable only with REPL1
- Hiring issues1
- Bad documented libs1
- Macros are overused by devs1
- Tricky profiling1
- IDE with high learning curve1
- Configuration bolierplate1
- Conservative community1
- Have no good and fast fmt0
Cons of Spring Boot
- Heavy weight23
- Annotation ceremony18
- Many config files needed11
- Excellent tools for cloud hosting, since 5.x4
Sign up to add or upvote consMake informed product decisions
What is Clojure?
What is Spring Boot?
Need advice about which tool to choose?Ask the StackShare community!
Sign up to get full access to all the companiesMake informed product decisions
What tools integrate with Clojure?
What tools integrate with Spring Boot?
Sign up to get full access to all the tool integrationsMake informed product decisions